English Section

[00:00] - This is Tom Campbell. I'm going to be in Kraków, Poland, the 30th of June to the 1st of July. For two days, we're going to have a very interesting set of discussions and conversations. I'll be talking some. Others will also be on the stage talking. We're going to discuss the nature of reality, the nature here of our existence, what it is we can do to save the world, to make this a better place to live in. What are the things that actually will help, as opposed to just make things worse? We're going to talk about how to evolve ourselves, how to become more powerful beings, if you will, how to harness the experiences of paranormal things. We'll talk about those, whether or not these things are real, where they come from. Do they really exist, or are they just part of people's imaginations?

And how do they work? What are the things that the mind can do? What are the things that consciousness can accomplish? So we'll be talking about all of that and about how you can apply those things to your everyday life. How can you apply them to your everyday decisions, to your business, to your relationships? So we'll be talking about all those interesting things, how to optimize your own life, how to live a life of happiness and joy and caring, and hopefully introduce you to a bigger picture of who you are and why you're here. So it's going to be a lot of fun. There's going to be a lot of interaction. We're going to have a lot of Q&A so that you can ask your questions and try to find out whether any of this makes sense for you or not. But I encourage you to come and give it a try.

We'll have fun guaranteed, and it'll be interesting, guaranteed, and probably, unless you've been studying this on your own, it's going to blow your mind, guaranteed. So come join us in Kraków. That's 30 June through 1 July.

[02:18] - I think we should start the introduction of Tom because he's not very well known in Poland. And I know some people who heard about you and some people who read your books, but you are not very well known to the public.

[02:43] - Right.

[02:46] - And can you introduce yourself? Can you tell us about yourself? How did it start with you?

[02:57] - Sure. Absolutely. Well, first of all, I am a physicist, a scientist, and while I was in graduate school, I learned to do transcendental meditation. I learned that not because of the transcendental part, but because the little flyer that told me about it said that you would be able to get by with less sleep. And as a graduate student, that is a very important thing because I was doing experimental low energy physics, and when you get all the big machinery running, you don't turn it off because you're sleepy. It just goes for day after day. So I thought the transcendental meditation might be helpful. It was natural for me, and I discovered something very significant about three months later, and that's that I could debug my software programs that I was writing for my research in my mind. I could bring up all the lines of code in my mind, and the ones that had errors in them, that had problems, would be red, and the ones that didn't would be the normal black on white. And I checked that out, not believing that it could possibly be real, and it was.

I was able to debug code with my mind thousands of times faster than I could have sitting there with the cards trying to figure out what was wrong. So that opened up my mind to a larger reality because I had proof to myself that reality was a lot more interesting, a lot more significant, had a lot more dimensions to it than just the physical dimensions that I was aware about as a physicist. Well, I got out of graduate school and had the opportunity to meet a gentleman called Bob Monroe. And Bob Monroe wrote the books, "Journeys Out of the Body." He also wrote "Far Journeys" and "Ultimate Journey." And he had out-of-body experiences. Now, out-of-body is really a poor name for the experience, but it's an experience where you find yourself awake, excuse me, and alert and not in this reality frame anymore, but in a reality frame that sometimes is associated with this reality frame. So he found out that he could remote view, he could go see things that were going on in this frame, in this reality, and then go find out later whether or not that's actually what was going on there. And he surprised himself that he was very accurate. Indeed, this out-of-body seemed to be a real thing, which surprised him. Then he wanted to study it. So he spent time and money to build a lab, and that's where I ran into him.

He had this lab built and really didn't know what to do with it. He needed some scientists to work in it. So there I was and a friend of mine, Dennis Menerick And we volunteered. We said, "Bob, we'll work in your lab for free. You teach us what you know about exploring this larger reality system." That was the deal. Well, we spent 15 to 20 hours a week at Bob Monroe's lab, working with Bob, and him trying to teach us, and us building equipment and coming up with experiments and so on. And in about a year, year and a half, both Dennis and I could do the same thing Bob did. We could go out of body whenever we wanted to, kind of on demand. Bob was a good teacher, and my goal was, as a physicist, my friend Dennis was an electrical engineer. My goal as a physicist was to understand how it all worked.

What were the conditions that made it work sometimes and not make it work all the time? What were the limitations? Why were the limitations? What could you do, what you couldn't do? Okay, well, eventually, I thought I understood how consciousness worked, and I was really working on a model of consciousness. That was my idea. Although I had learned through my experiments in consciousness that consciousness was fundamental. Consciousness had to be fundamental. It was the fundamental source, and that our physical reality was somehow a product of that consciousness. And I didn't really understand how, in a very clear way, but I knew that consciousness was the fundamental thing, and the physical world was a subset of that, or even a creation of that in some way.

So I finally got the book written, and it was a theory of consciousness, and because it also was a superset of the physical world, it was also a theory of everything. But I didn't really understand its connection to physics at that point, even though I'm a physicist, and I should've gotten it before anybody else. But about two years after I'd published it, somebody said something to me that just triggered an aha moment, and I realized that the same understanding, the same principles that created or that made this theory of consciousness also could explain quantum mechanics. It explained the double-slit experiment and all the rest of quantum mechanics. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. It says, wow, I didn't know that it would be that direct a connection between this model of consciousness and the model of the physical reality. But there was. So then I thought, well, if I can explain quantum mechanics rationally, where other physicists couldn't. Other physicists just said quantum mechanics was weird science. You couldn't understand it.

It wasn't logical. It was beyond our knowing, beyond our logic. I could explain it with my consciousness theory, and it was just logical like any other science. So then I thought about relativity. That's the other big thing in physics, and it only took me a few hours to see how relativity could be explained with my theory of consciousness. The thing that makes relativity, or the underlying assumption under relativity is that C, the speed of light, is a constant. Once you understand why the speed of light is a constant, then deriving special relativity is just some algebra. It's not even very complicated math. And once you have special relativity, then it gets more complicated, but basically, general relativity just adds gravity to special relativity. So I hear I had the basis for physics, for relativity and quantum mechanics in a theory of consciousness.

And that was because my theory of consciousness was based on the idea that consciousness is information. And that makes sense to people because what is it that you're conscious of? Well, it's what your five senses bring to you. It's what you see, what you hear, what you smell, what you can touch, what you can taste. That's what creates your reality. That's just information. And it's not only just information, it's discrete information. It comes in chunks, little voltage pulses that run down your nervous system. It's all discrete information. So reality is information.

Consciousness is information. Okay, so, with that understanding, I began to look at all of the things in physics that were called paradoxes. There were a lot of paradoxes in physics. There are dozens of paradoxes in physics, things where the physicists just run into a wall where they can't understand it. They just don't know why things work the way they do. They know that they work a certain way. They can make experiments to tell them that, but they don't know why. And I was able to answer all of these paradoxes, like how does tunneling work? The Zeno effect. Where did the ball of plasma come from just prior to the Big Bang?

You see, all of that is paradoxical. There's no logical reason for that. There's no ways to explain it. But with my understanding of consciousness and that it was an information field, I could understand all the paradoxes in physics. So I eventually realized that I can explain physics with this theory of consciousness, that it's not only a good model of consciousness, it's also a good model of physics and of science. So then I started looking for paradoxes all through science and through philosophy and through theology. And I found that all of these paradoxes would yield to the same understanding, the same logical process would provide good, logical, scientific answers in all of these fields. So at that point, I started doing more science in my videos, in my YouTube, because the books had already been published. I went back and put a little bit of that science back in the books, but not too much because I wanted to keep the books available and readable by everybody. I didn't want to do too much physics in the books.

But in the YouTube, I put more physics in. And then about, let's see, October 2016, I presented a set of, I think about 17, 18 physics experiments that, if they were done, would lend an awful lot of very strong evidence toward this being a virtual reality, to our reality being a virtual reality. That is an information-based reality. And they would also point very strongly to the fact that consciousness is the computer. See, information-based reality has to be computed. You have to have a source of the information. So the computer then is consciousness. So I now have this large group of science experiments, of quantum physics experiments that I'm trying to get done by a very reputable physics department and a very reputable university. And they, I think, will demonstrate the truth or the veracity of what it is that I've been saying, and of the model of consciousness and of the kind of new way of looking at physics through the eyes of a computed virtual reality. So that's kind of a story of how a physicist ended up being a consciousness researcher.

I spent probably an equal number of years in both camps. I spent now about 40 years doing physics and about 40 years doing consciousness research. And the result is a TOE, a theory of everything, that explains in logical detail how consciousness works. It makes things that we call paranormal, just normal for the most part. It explains these things that researchers have found, remote viewers have verified that they can indeed remote view, and people have verified that there is a telepathic connection and that you can heal with your mind. And all of these things that are known to be facts but are dismissed by science because they can't be explained materially, they can all be explained as very natural phenomena from a virtual reality viewpoint. Once you understand that this reality is information-based, all of those things just fall out as natural occurrences. Okay? And the fact that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, that falls out as a natural occurrence, too. There's good logical reasons for that sort of thing.

So there's this larger understanding, this bigger picture of how our reality works that solves the outstanding problems that we have, even in theology. Okay? It gives us an idea of who we are, why we're here, what our purpose is, the function of this reality, why the reality exists, and that helps people understand who they are, why they are, and what they're supposed to be doing. And now that's kind of on the technical side. Then on the personal side, this theory helps people understand what they need to do, what they need to become in order to make their life positive, happy, full of joy. So it turns out that this reality we're in has a purpose, and that purpose is for us to evolve the quality of our consciousness. This virtual reality we're in, I call an entropy reduction trainer, that helps us evolve our consciousness. You could even call that spiritual growth, if you like, or just growing up, having a higher quality of consciousness. So that's what it's about. And if you do that, you find that all the issues and problems and struggles that you have, all the negatives, the fear, the anxiety, the stress, the disappointment, all of the stuff that's the negative stuff in your life disappears, goes away, and your life becomes one of happiness, of joy, of caring.

It's a very positive life. So this theory has a soft science side, which is like the psychology and anthropology and philosophy and theology. It has a hard science side, which is the physics, the quantum mechanics, relativity, biology, neuroscience, and it also has a personal side, which talks about how to optimize your existence, your life, your experience here in this physical reality. So that's what it's about. That's sort of what it does, who I am and where I've kind of come from on this journey. And though it takes hours and hours to explain this theory in logical detail, to make it sound like the science that it is I assure you that there are logical and scientific and precise derivations of all the things that I've just said. It's not just that I make these things up and that they sound good, and I say them because people like to hear them. It's that I can derive these things logically from just two assumptions. One assumption is that consciousness exists, the other is that evolution exists. Evolution is simply things change according to their environment.

Things that work go forward. Things that don't work become extinct, go away. And with just those two assumptions, all the rest is logical derivation.

[19:06] - Following the logical steps that come here, I'd like to ask you a question which would be related to the, well, Radio Paranormalium or rather the layman in the street, I guess, the average listener who encounters your theory for the first time. What's in it for the average person? What can, one, an average person gain from what you are saying, from the theory?

[19:37] - Okay. Well, there's a lot of things the average person can gain, but probably the most important is that they can gain their life back. They can gain happiness. They can gain satisfaction in their life. The relationships will all get better, and that's all the relationships with their spouses, with their children, with their boss, with their neighbors. All of your relationships will get a whole lot better. You won't be angry. You won't be upset. You won't be dissatisfied. Your life will be one of happiness and joy.

So that's a pretty big positive of what it could do for an individual. Now, there's those things that will occur just because you start growing the quality of your consciousness, lowering your entropy. But there's other things, too. You will find out that as you grow up, your decision space, and that is all the choices that you can make. We have free will. We get to pick a choice from among many possibilities. That's one of the things we humans have maybe better than any of the other critters on this planet, is a very large decision space. There's a lot of things we can do, a lot of ways we can react and interact, things we can build. And with all these choices, what matters most is the quality of the choice that you make. Is it a choice toward growth and evolution, or is it a choice toward de-evolution and basically coming apart, becoming less rather than becoming more?

So as you grow up, your decision space gets bigger. Your reality gets bigger. You start to live in a larger space, a larger reality. Now, what does that mean? That means that you live in a bigger picture. You see things, understand things. You can understand where people are coming from. You can understand their emotions and feelings. You can understand their thoughts. If you want to, you can even experience the flavor of the food they're eating.

You can get inside their head and see the world through their eyes, the way they see the world. You can explore their viewpoint. So that's just part of the information. Now, that gives you more choices. You also have accesses to information that's collected in the process of creating this virtual reality. I just call those databases. There's a probable future database and there's a past database, and that information is available to you once you grow up and increase the quality of your consciousness. So all the history is there and future probabilities are there, and these databases just exist because they're part of the mechanics of producing the virtual reality. Now, in other cultures have come across these databases. I believe the Hindus call them the Akashic records.

Others probably call it other things. You see, you get to this understanding through the exploration of inner space as opposed to the exploration of outer space. When you explore outer space, it's very expensive and hard to do. Exploring inner space is something that every human can do. Actually, every consciousness can do if they have an interest and if they're persistent and take the time to explore it and study it. So it's been done in all cultures and all times. 2,500 years ago, the Buddha said that our reality was an illusion. Well, that's as close to saying that it's an information-based virtual reality as you can get 2,500 years ago. The concept of virtual reality didn't exist, but the concept of illusion did. So many people have explored inner space throughout time, probably in every land, and at every time, there's some number of people who, through exploring inner space, have come to the very similar conclusions that I have come to.

The big difference is that they didn't have the concepts to turn this into science, to make it a logical process. It, for them, was just unknowing information that they got and understood, and then they had to express it best they could to the people of their time. So we find all the historical results of explorations of inner space are basically poetry. You have to interpret them. People who haven't had the experiences have to read them and say, "Gee, what does that mean?" And well, it could mean this, it could mean that. There's lots of ways to interpret things. So it's not really factual. It really wasn't scientific. It was more descriptive than scientific. Kind of describing my experience and what it meant to me kind of a thing.

Very non-objective, completely subjective in its narrative. What I bring to it is I end up discovering the same things, I ended up discovering the same things that most of these other people who have explored the larger consciousness system have found. But I do it in terms of logic and within a model that is scientific and logical that anybody can follow and see the logic in it. It's not poetry. It's not open to interpretation. It's just the way it is. It's kind of factual, logic-based rather than poetry-based. So that's the main difference. So there's a lot of things you get from growing up. Here's another thing, or a lot of things you get from following this path.

Another thing is that you can now, as a beginner, you can learn to meditate, and that meditation will help you let go of this physical reality and therefore become aware in a larger reality, which is, of course, the consciousness reality. And that's a good process to do, and it helps get you acquainted with your own consciousness, which is step one. But as you grow up, as you raise the quality of your consciousness, you don't really meditate anymore in a formal way. Your life becomes a meditation. You stay in this meditation space all the time, but you also can work very actively here in the reality as well. In other words, you get the parallel process. You can be a multidimensional being who can multiprocess these various dimensions simultaneously. So as you interact and talk with people, you can understand their feeling, where they're coming from, what their issues are. You can get data from the database that helps you understand how you can be helpful and useful to them. So all of this then becomes a part of your reality.

The paranormal things that you talk about, the remote viewing, the abilities to heal, the abilities to get information that's in the databases, all of these things become just a natural part of your everyday life, the way you deal with things. But in order to get to the point that that's true, that it's just a natural part of your everyday life, you've got to raise the quality of your consciousness. If you approach this with ego and with belief and with fear, you're not going to get there. So you see, you have to grow up toward becoming love, becoming caring about other, about cooperation, about caring about how you interact with people, and what you leave behind. And when you develop that part of you, now the reality gets bigger and bigger, and you get more and more information, and you can interact with it at a level that's at a much larger reality that you live in, that you experience than the normal person experiences. So that's really what's different. So if a person wants to take this path, what is it that they might gain? Well, they might gain happiness. They might gain good relationships. They might gain a lot of inside, if you will, and put that in quotes, inside information about how the world works, why it works that way, and how individual people work, and why they're working that way, and all of that becomes an available thing.

And yes, you can learn to heal. You can learn to remote view. All those things become easy things to do once you increase the quality of your consciousness. Whereas if you try to just force yourself onto those things, you can still do them a little. You can learn the techniques, but you'll never be real good at it, nor will it ever integrate into your larger reality unless you just grow up. So that's kind of the fail-safe connection. If you are doing this for purposes of your ego and to take advantage of people, then you'll never be very good at it, so it really won't help you that much. If you're doing this to serve people, then you can get very good at it, but you'll only use it to help people. So it's kind of a system that is self-policing, if you will.

[29:37] - Okay. So you said that when we grow up, the entropy gets reduced, yes? And-

[29:54] - Yes

[29:56] - ... and can one's reduced entropy affect another one's entropy?

[30:05] - Yes.

[30:07] - And how it happens? What is the mechanism of this influence?

[30:16] - Okay. There's several mechanisms involved. One of them is that we are all netted. All individuated units of consciousness, which is what we are, all of us are netted, and we just like being netted on the internet. On the internet, you can click on URLs and become connected to somebody that's netted with you on the internet. You're on the internet, they're on the internet, but in order to make the connection, you click on their URL. Well, within consciousness, we're all netted, and we share information and data all the time, but you open and close the connections with your intent. Your intent is the motive force in consciousness. So that's one way that you affect other people with your own quality of consciousness, and this is a good example of that. People who form a mob, a bunch of angry people get together, and they form a mob.

Their anger spreads among them. They feed on each other's anger, and the mob itself is capable of doing mean and terrible things that none of the individuals would do by themselves. As a mob, they're much more dangerous, not just because of the numbers, because at the depth to which they will descend gets a lot deeper just because they are sharing all this anger among themselves. So it amplifies the anger, and the mob is much worse than any individual in it. Well, the same works on the positive side. If you're around people who have a high quality of consciousness, they tend to pull you up. Their high quality of consciousness makes you feel good, makes you feel lighter. You feel better, happier in their presence. So you enjoy being around them. So it works both ways.

If you have a lot of very high-quality people, they tend to pull up the people around them, and if you're in a bunch of low-quality people, they tend to pull down the quality of everyone. Everyone kind of goes to the average quality of consciousness, whether that's very low or whether that's very high. So that's one way you influence other people. Another way is that the mechanism of how this virtual reality works here is that your intent can modify future probability. I mentioned a database called the future probable database. Well, the way new things come into this reality is by a random draw from a distribution of the probability of the possibilities. In other words, in the future, there may be 100 things that might happen, and as far as just in one instance, could go down 100 different ways. But each one of those ways has a certain probability of happening, and your intent will modify that probability, make it more likely or less likely. So that is a way that the mind can affect things here. So it affects things here that way.

It affects things here by its interpretation. It's another way that it affects things here. So you get a data stream. This is the way virtual realities work. We have to talk about virtual reality a little bit here. The way virtual realities work is that there is a computer that computes the virtual reality. Okay? Now, the computer cannot exist inside the virtual reality. If you play "World of Warcraft," you won't find the computer that computes "World of Warcraft" inside the "World of Warcraft" virtual reality frame. It has to be outside, okay?

Reality can't compute itself. So the computer has to be non-physical from the viewpoint of the virtual reality. So from the viewpoint of the elf, the computer that computes that elf and that elf's reality has to be outside of that virtual reality. Which of course we know that's the case. Also, the consciousness that makes that elf's choices also has to reside outside of that virtual reality. The consciousness can't be in the virtual reality because the virtual reality is just information. It's just ones and zeros on a hard drive. Ones and zeros on a hard drive aren't conscious. Your Word documents aren't conscious. They're ones and zeros on a hard drive as well, and there's no way that they can become conscious.

It's just information. Information displayed on a screen can't be conscious. There's no way that that is possible. It's just like a letter that you write isn't suddenly going to become conscious. It doesn't work that way. So consciousness also has to exist outside the virtual reality. In fact, consciousness has to be in the same reality frame as the computer, because a virtual reality is just a consciousness talking to a computer. Now, in the world of Warcraft, you, the player, are the consciousness. You play an elf, you're the elf's consciousness. The elf doesn't make any choices on its own.

A player makes all of its choices, okay? And that player communicates with the server, with the computer. So this virtual reality is really just an exchange of data between the player and the server. So the player and the server have to be in the same reality frame. We've already established that the server, the computer, can't be inside the virtual reality. So you see, what that says about us is that our bodies are avatars. They're just ones and zeros on a hard drive. Our consciousness has to exist outside that virtual reality, and we are individuated units of consciousness logged on to this body as a player, and the computer is another part of that larger consciousness system that's computing the game. So that's kind of the way... When I talk about virtual reality, think of it in those terms.

You're the player. Your body is the avatar. The computer is in the consciousness system. Okay, so that means that You, the consciousness, are immortal. You don't die when your avatar dies, just like you don't die when your elf dies playing World of Warcraft. What do you do then? Well, you go get another elf, or you resurrect that one. Why? Because otherwise the game wouldn't be much fun. You just get to play once until you die, and then it'd be the end of the game.

You wouldn't be able to log back on anymore. It's like you had your one shot at the game, and now you're done. Go play some other game. Well, that's not going to be very profitable for the person that makes the game, and it's not going to be very profitable for the player because they're not going to ever learn very much because they're not going to last long enough to learn anything. So the game has to be such that you go back and get another elf and play again, and you get smarter and smarter, better and better. You level up and get more capable as you play. Our reality works the same way. We're here to lower our entropy. Now, your viewers may not know what entropy is, but entropy is a physics term that means a measure of disorder. So if you have a lot of disorder, that's high entropy.

If you don't have much disorder, if you have a lot of order, that's low entropy. Consciousness is an information system. An information system is composed of bits. If all the bits are random, that is, have no order, then you have very high entropy, and you also have no information. So high entropy and no information go together. Now, if you order those bits into something meaningful, that's called information, and you've just lowered the entropy of the system. So that's why we talk about an information system and about evolving that information system means lowering its entropy. Lowering its entropy means order, structure, meaning, significance, those sorts of things. So as long as the system is doing that, it's evolving. When it's not doing that, when it is tearing things apart, when it is finding things that don't have meaning or significance, when its bits are more random, it's de-evolving, and if it de-evolves often enough, it'll die.

It'll go back to randomness, and it won't have any information anymore. Then it's not an information system. So it's dead. That's a dead information system without information. So you see, this information system is just a natural thing. It's not supernatural. It's just a natural system. It is trying to survive by lowering its entropy. It lowers its entropy through making choices. What it does, what consciousness does is it shares data.

It shares data back and forth. That's really all it can do. Well, how do you lower your entropy through sharing data? It's not easy. There's not a lot of consequences there. There's not a lot of choices that mean much there. It's hard to really construct something that works together. So when you have a social system like consciousness, which is the main... You have this main system that's part of the computer, and you're a part of it. You're the IUOC, the individuated consciousness, and altogether, all these IUOCs, individuated units of consciousness, form a social system, okay, with the larger consciousness system.

And the social system is trying to evolve its quality, to evolve consciousness to higher orders of organization, more organization. Well, there's two paths that you can take to do that. There's two paths that you can take to evolve. There's lots of paths, but we can break them into two types of paths. One of them is the path of cooperation and caring, where each individuated unit of consciousness is trying to optimize the whole system. It's about other. It's about all of us, not just self, okay? That is a way that optimizes the interactions between consciousness, and I can give a little example of that if you'd only go deeper into it. Otherwise, you have the fear side, which is... So that's the love side, or you have the fear side, and on the fear side, you don't have trust.

Without trust, everybody has to be for themselves because you really can't trust what somebody else is trying to do. When everybody's out for themselves, basically, you want to grab as much as you can get, and then you have to figure out how to hold it. Well, somebody else is bigger and stronger than you, can take your stuff away from you. So what do you do? You gang up with other individuated units of consciousness in mutual protection packs, and now people can't take stuff away from you because there's 10 of you together. You see? And then other conscious group up into such packs, and then those packs grow, and eventually you'll have a small number of very competitive groups that are all basically warring with each other. What they say is that their defense groups just want to keep others from taking their stuff, but really, they want to take other people's stuff whenever they can. That's just the nature of a low-quality consciousness, you see? So we have the fear group that sounds a lot like a place where we live, right?

Where eventually those groups are very hierarchical because it's all about who controls who and who's loyal to who. So it's a big hierarchy as far as the organization goes, and you have, what, 5% of those that are on top own 95% of all the resources. That's how that ends up. Whereas on the other side, the love side, everybody's trying to help everybody else do and be what they want. You have a maximum amount of choice, maximum amount of freedom And you optimize what you do with your resources because everyone's there to help everyone else get what they need. So if you have a need, everybody else is going to try to help you solve your problem and help you work with your need. So that optimizes it for everyone. So I've kind of rambled through this now, just trying to give an idea of how it works. The fact that there are many things you can do, your reality gets bigger as you grow up. You can affect more things.

You have a bigger decision space, and you have availability of information and data that otherwise you wouldn't have because this data resides in consciousness and you have to get into consciousness in order to retrieve it. The data doesn't reside in the virtual reality. So does that help shed any light on or did I talk too long, or does that tell you what you wanted to know, Pawel?

[43:52] - Yes, I think yes. This is a quite big topic to explain how one's consciousness affects another one's. I asked about the entropy and how this ordered entropy affect another person's entropy because in context of global consciousness, how a group of people in the Earth can affect changes in global consciousness.

[44:38] - Okay. Like I said, we're all netted, so we have this thing called collective consciousness. And if in your mind you have an intention that you are a member of a group, then you kind of log on to the collective consciousness of that group, and that group will change a little bit because of your consciousness now being added to it. But you will change a whole lot more because that group is a much bigger thing than just you are. Let's say there's 1,000 people in that group, then you're going to modify that 1,000 just a little bit by your inclusion, but it's going to modify you more than that. So a collective consciousness exists in any group that you feel like you belong to. At the very lowest level, it might be just a family, or it might be the place where you work. They call that the culture in the workplace. That's culture as a collective consciousness. Or it could be a nation, or it could be the whole world.

It could be all of humanity. It could be racial to humanity. So we have these collective consciousness and they give us attitudes. They give us ways of thinking as we're part of this collective. We tend to think like the other people in the collective, just like we talked about the mob or the bunch of learned people who have high quality consciousness. They tend to pull all of the people toward an average way of being. So this collective consciousness exists in many, many forms, many places. It's what we call culture when we talk about nations. But now how do we influence that? Well, again, if we have a high quality, we help pull up everybody's quality.

The more people who raise the quality of their consciousness, who become cooperative and caring, then that helps other people become cooperative and caring. It helps pull them up. You help pull up your groups, the groups that you are in, all move a little bit because you've grown up. So the most fundamental thing, the most important and powerful thing we can do to change the entire world is to change ourselves, is to grow up, get rid of our fear, get rid of our ego, get rid of our beliefs. All of those things are the things that keep us in a low quality. So as we get to be higher quality, we help pull up all those around us and as they raise their quality, they'll pull up everyone around them. There's no way to directly change somebody else. You can only change yourself. You only have control over yourself. So we think about the world and how can we change it?

How can we make it a better place? And mostly we don't look at ourselves. We look out at the world and we say, "Oh, okay. These politicians, these are bad people. They need to go. Oh, these corporate owners, these big multinational corporations, they're cheating and stealing. They're doing all kinds of things that aren't nice and aren't ethical to make more money, and they need to go." Well, all of those things are just symptoms. Another symptom would be like monetary systems. That's another symptom. Politics, that's another symptom.

The way our politicians don't seem to really be so interested in our welfare as they are in their own. So all of these are symptoms of a low quality of consciousness and if you go and fix those, if you change those corporate leaders, change those politicians, change the people who are in charge, change the economic system, and you will have changed a symptom. Now, changing symptoms is nice. Everybody may feel better for a while, while that symptom is not so nasty, but it's only a symptom and it will eventually go right back to the way it was. Because it's a symptom of the collective quality of consciousness of we, the people. So this world that we live in is a very accurate representation of who we are. This world is one we create. So we create it with our intent, so it reflects us. Remember, you can modify future probability with your intent. So what we're living in and the future we're going to live in tomorrow is there because of the way we are.

So if you want to change the world, the most important and significant step you can take is to change yourself, to grow up, get rid of the fear, get rid of the ego, get rid of the beliefs, and that will help the whole world grow up. And we have to do this one person at a time. There's no way that you can just change people, but we affect other people and make it easier for them to change themselves as we grow up. We just pull other people up with us, just like as we de-evolve, we drag other people down with us. It works both directions. So that's how we can save the world. That's how we can change the attitudes from fearful attitudes and greedy attitudes to attitudes of caring and attitudes of cooperation. We have to change ourselves first. And we can see that in our history. Look at all the dictators that have been overthrown, the oppressors that have been gotten rid of, and what do you end up with?

You end up with another system eventually that's also oppressive. Because our quality is low enough that what we generate here is institutions that are oppressive, institutions that are not really out for the people, but they're out for their own sake, for their own power. So because we're out for our own sake and out for our own power, that's what we create. So that's how you affect the world, is by growing up yourself. But we can do this as we grow up one at a time. The whole thing lightens up. The whole thing gets better. So I know it's hard to imagine that one person can change the world, but the only way we can change it is through everybody growing up, everybody becoming love, everybody caring about other people. That's the only solution. There is no other solution.

You can maybe come up with a kinder economic system, a kinder solution to money. You can do all these things, but eventually, if you don't grow up, those things will become corrupted. Those things will become abusive. If we don't grow up, and we're still corrupt and we're still abusive, all of these clever schemes that we can come up with to ensure that everybody will live happily ever after, they'll all just turn corrupt eventually anyway, because they all come back to trust. Somebody's always at the control. Somebody always has some ability to misuse whatever the tools we give them. So you have to change the people first to have lasting change for a long-term solution.

[52:11] - Okay. Thank you. And other questions, Andre?

[52:17] - Yeah, sure. Well, I've got two questions in one. First, well, what is the ultimate goal for mankind, and something which is associated with that, how many lifetimes does it take for a, well, individuated unit of consciousness or an entity to grow up?

[52:40] - Okay. Okay, what's kind of the goal? Where are we going? What's the end game to this process, is really what you're asking. And there is no end game to the process. Okay? It's not that we grow up and we get to the point where we're perfect, and now we're perfect beings and we can sit on a nice fluffy, soft cloud and play our harp. You see? It's not like that. We don't get perfect and then stay that way.

That's not the way it is. So it's not like graduating from school. That once you graduate and you got a bachelor's degree or you got a master's or a PhD, then you're done. You'll have that PhD forever, and you're always a PhD because you paid your dues, you made the grades, and you graduated, and now you're it. It doesn't work that way with consciousness evolution. We're here to grow up, and that growing up means becoming love, increasing the quality of our consciousness. That means we care about other. It's not just about us. So as we grow up, we get more and more evolved in caring about other. We get more and more evolved in how can we contribute?

How can we help? How can we help raise the environment so more and more people will grow themselves up in a better environment? How can we be good examples? So there's always something to do, you see. And if you stop growing, if you stop trying to grow and you say, "Well, I'm done," that's the moment you start to de-evolve because this is about entropy reduction. And if you don't continue to put energy in to keeping entropy low, entropy just gets higher all by itself with neglect. So that's just a fact of life. We call that second law of thermodynamics in physics, and that is that if you don't continually put in energy, a system will start to dissipate and dissolve. And that's true in our world. If you never do maintenance on your home Your home will eventually, the roof will leak, and it will fall in and collapse.

And then a long enough time goes by, it'll just disappear altogether. It'll turn to dust. You have to continually put in maintenance because entropy just naturally increases if no energy is put in to keep it low. So if you grow up to the point that you are very high quality of consciousness and then you just quit, there's two problems with that. One, you'll start to degenerate as soon as you quit because energy has to keep being put into it. And two, you would never quit because the more quality you earn, the more helpful you are, the more able you are to give, the more able you are to help things. And that's what you're about. That's the whole thing that motivates you, is you want to give back. You want to cooperate. You care.

So there's no quitting. So we're in this for eternity. We're in this role for a long time. As we grow up, we just get more powerful. We get happier. Our life is better. So it's not like, oh, I got to live in this mess forever. It's not like that. As you grow up, your life gets to be really fun and challenging and neat and exciting and full of joy. So you enjoy what it is you're doing once you grow up.

When you're not too grown up, your life is full of misery, full of struggle, full of anxiety, full of pain. So the idea is to grow up, find your joy, and keep growing your ability to contribute. So there isn't an end game where we end up. There's no place where you graduate and get out, and you're no longer in the game and you go somewhere else. Now, there are other reality frames. This is not the only virtual reality trainer that's in the larger consciousness system. There's others, and you can not continue to go here. You could go to some other reality system and continue to grow there. But whatever system you're in and growing, you're still doing the same thing. You're still trying to be part of the solution by helping others, by being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Being helpful, being cooperative, caring, and you never tire of that. And you're never going to run out of that need because it's not a fixed system. It's not like there are N individuated units of consciousness in the system and eventually all N are going to be grown up. It's not like that. There are new individuated units of consciousness coming online all the time. Population keeps growing. The number of seats in the simulator keeps going up. So there's always going to be new coming in at the bottom as long as the population increases. So that's kind of the end game, if you will. There is no end game.

We just get better and better at it. But what's nice about it is as we get better and better at it, we get happier and happier with it. We become more and more useful, and we enjoy the game. So it's not something we want to quit. We want to help. So it's not like, oh, no, I'm stuck and I'm locked into this role of service forever. Well, that's your fear talking. When your love talks, it says, "Great, that's what I want to do. I want to be able to give and be helpful forever." That's the optimal. See, otherwise, you get to a point, what do you do when you're done?

How do you contribute? What's your challenge? How do you keep working? Well, if you're just done, you get, what, sit on the cloud and play your harp for the rest of eternity? That's pretty boring. So you never get done. You always are able to give, and you always can contribute, and you just get better and better at it and have more and more fun.

[58:57] - Okay. So Andrzej, do you have any questions? Another question?

[59:02] - Yes, and probably another one which comes along, and probably a question that the listeners would ask would be the issue of what is called reincarnation. Can you elaborate on that, so that the listeners understand that this is not a one-go, but it's a repetitive process?

[59:26] - Okay. What I've already said is that we're learning here. Okay? The point is to grow up, which means to learn to become more. Learning, by its nature, is a cumulative process. You can't get into third grade until you've been through first and second grade. You don't get into college until you've been through high school. It's a cumulative process, and you can't learn in a parallel process. Going to first grade, 10 people all going to first grade, and then you take all 10 of those people through first grade and get all their knowledge, sum them together, is not at all the same as one person going through 10 grades in 10 years. So they go through first grade, second grade, third grade, all the way up through 10th grade.

That one person that serially has accumulated knowledge at 10th grade is a whole lot more advanced than the accumulation of those 10 people that just all went through first grade. You see? Knowledge is cumulative. You can't understand B until you've understood A first. So because knowledge is cumulative, if the knowledge is going to amount to very much, you have to have experience after experience, and learning to become love, learning to give and cooperate, learning to get rid of fear and ego is not an easy thing to do. It's a very difficult thing to do. We drew it through the quality of our choices. Good choices move us toward evolution. Bad choices move us toward de-evolution. So the game is to become love.

That's the name of the game, become love. You can't do that in what, 80 years? Whatever the lifespan is of a human being on average. You can't do that in 80 years. You're lucky even to take one big step in 80 years. So you have to do it. You have to progress through this life experience and another life experience and another life experience. And each time you come back for another life experience, you bring with you everything you learned the last time. You bring back the quality, I should say it that way. You bring back the quality that you earned the last time.

So you evolve your quality in this life experience a little bit. Next time you come back with a little higher quality, to start with. So it's accumulating. Now, when I put this idea, and I didn't call it reincarnation, I recall, I call it an experience packet. You have multiple experience packets because I didn't like all the baggage that came with these words that come out of theory, religious theology. So I didn't put this idea in because I thought it was a nifty idea. I put this in because the logic required it. You see, the system wouldn't work without it. And I have a system that starts with those two assumptions I mentioned earlier. It goes all the way through to where it's solving physics problems, doing better quantum mechanics and understanding relativity, what physicists don't understand now.

So the physics is on the far end of the logic stream. The assumptions are on the beginning end of the logic stream. And all the logic progresses forward from the beginning through the end. Well, this idea of rebirth, of serial experience packets was necessary, part of that logic. That logic stream would've broken if it wasn't for that. So that idea had to go there so that we could end up doing better physics at the end. You see, otherwise we couldn't have gotten there. So it's part of the logic of the system that says we're here to learn, we're consciousness. Consciousness evolves by lowering its entropy. Lowering your entropy takes time.

It's not an easy thing to do. That requires multiple lifetimes to do that because in this virtual reality, the rule set in the virtual reality only allows the avatars, at least now, to live to, let's say 80 years old on the average. So that's all the time you've got in that one experience packet. And thousand years ago, that average old age was like 35 years old. Anybody back in 1,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, the average mortality rate was probably about 35 years is when you died. People who were 40 years old were old. They were ancient almost. And people who in their 70s and 80s almost never existed. People didn't live that long. You were bound to get an infection or get something, and there was no medicine that would fix you.

You just, you got stuff, you died from it. Life was very hard. It tended to wear out the body. So the reincarnation is a logical piece of this larger science that has to be there. Not something I added because I believed in it or liked it. And the whole theory's that way. The whole theory is just what's necessary logically to get to the end, to get to the part that you can verify, like these physics experiments that I'm doing at the far end. So that's where that comes from. It's a necessarily logical piece of the whole thing. It's needed in order to make the theory fit the data points.

You see, what a theory needs to do to be a good theory, it has to fit all the existing data points. Now, the data points are what we call facts. Mostly facts are things that experiments determine. The experiment goes on and says, "This is how the world works." That's a fact. We've done this experiment and done it a bunch of times, and that's how the world works. Now that becomes a fact, and your theory has to explain all the facts. It can't explain almost all the facts. That won't work. That means your theory is incomplete. It has to explain all the facts that we know.

Okay? Now, because I studied and did research inside of consciousness, I have another whole set of facts. I've got all the physical facts that have to be met, data points that have to be explained, but I also have a whole set of points that I had discovered and learned about inside of consciousness that I know are also facts because I've done the research there. I know these things work this way. So my theory had to also fit all of those facts. So I needed a theory that was logical, one logical, elegant theory that would fit all the facts, the ones in consciousness and the ones in the physical reality. And that's what this My Big Toe is. It's a logical theory, and that reincarnation is an inevitable, or you might say a logical necessity for the whole thing to work. And it makes me feel good that I can do better physics out at the far end of the logic stream and get the right answers because if my logic was flawed back Upstream further, it's unlikely I'd be able to get right answers at something as specific as physics problems. So it gives me some warm feeling that the logic is right because it works.

It works on the far end in the detail, and that would be hard to do if you had any major problems upstream in the logic. So that doesn't mean my theory's perfect. Theories have to be living things. You have to be able to change them. New information could come that brings up things that the theory wouldn't fit, a data point, a fact that it wouldn't explain. And in that case, the theory either has to expand or you have to get a different theory. So it's not that theories should be seen as facts or laws. They should only be seen as models. It's the way you model reality and the model has to be flexible so that it can deal with future knowledge, future facts. So far, as best I can tell, my theory fits all the facts.

I haven't found a fact either in consciousness, in neuroscience, in physics, in biology. I haven't found any fact that is contradicted by the theory. So far so good, but I'm still looking for things. It's not that I believe that there are none, it's that I just haven't found them yet.

[01:08:29] - You frequently say that it is your theory and everyone should work their own theories.

[01:08:38] - Yes.

[01:08:38] - Is that correct?

[01:08:39] - That's right. I do call it my theory because it is. It's what I came up with from my own experience to explain the things that, the facts that I was able to find in my existence here, both physical and non-physical. But the point is, there's one little phrase I use a lot that's very important, and that is that if it's not your experience, it's not your truth. If it's not your experience, then don't accept my experience as truth. This theory of mine, my big toe, is just a place to start developing your own big toe. Because if you can't verify what I say from your own experience, then you need to work on that. And it's not that hard to work on. I give training courses. I just gave three of them in France in the month of March about how to explore the larger conscious system so that you can experience personally some of the things that will verify for you that this reality is like I describe it to be.

So when it becomes your own experience, then it's a fact. Up until then, you should be skeptical. Another thing I tell people is be open-minded, but always be skeptical. And the person you need to be the most skeptical of is yourself. Always be skeptical. So when I give a talk, at the end of every talk I give, I usually say, "Don't believe a word that I've told you." It's not profitable to believe anything. Don't believe anything. You should have no beliefs. Beliefs are problems. When you believe something, you're no longer open to things that are contradictory to that belief.

Things come in that contradict your belief, you just throw them away. Oh, well, that must be wrong data or that's an accident, or those people don't know what they're talking about, or it's some fluke. You just make up excuses and throw away everything that disagrees with your belief. So that's what scientists have been doing for the last 100 years. Every time they do a quantum mechanics experiment that tells them that materialism isn't right, can't possibly be what the world's based on, they just toss it aside because they have this belief in materialism, and they said, "Oh, yeah, that doesn't make any sense, but it's just weird science." Maybe it won't ever make sense. Maybe it's one of those things we were just never meant to know and they'll never know it, but it's just weird. Rather than saying something more intelligent and scientific as, if this doesn't confirm my belief, then maybe my belief is wrong. You see? Almost nobody says that. Scientists certainly don't say that.

They cling to their beliefs and then make up stories to justify that belief. And that's what most people do when they have a belief. That's why belief gets added to the list of the things you got to get rid of. You get rid of your fear and your ego and your beliefs, and fear actually generates that ego and those beliefs. So yes, my big toe is only a model. I'm not saying this is the truth, the only truth. I'm saying this is a model of reality. The larger consciousness system is a metaphor. The individuated units of consciousness are metaphors. All of these are metaphors of, they're all metaphors to allow us to have a conversation.

These are metaphors that put logical functions in this theory. As you develop a logical theory, you have here's a function that needs to be met. Okay? You have to learn. That's a function. You can't grow up. You can't evolve if there's not learning involved. If there isn't change. If you can't make better decisions. You just kind of stay where you are otherwise.

So because learning is a function that's required, then you put that in to the model and you give it a name. You give a metaphor to represent that. So models are theories that give you a model of something And that's what my theory is. It's a model. So you look at it, and if any of it talks to you, if any of it says, "Yeah, geez, this fits my experience really well," then good. If you look at it and you say, "Oh, this doesn't make any sense to me," well, then let it go, but you should be open-minded and say, "Well, maybe if I knew more, or if I studied harder, or if I learned other things, or had different experience, it would make sense." So I'll just kind of keep it there as a maybe to see if any data might come in. So there should be very- probability of one means probability of one. This is just the way it is and will never be any different, and a probability of zero is this is totally impossible, could never be. Keep things mostly in between there. Have very few ones and very few zeros, and as you have experience, expand your own model.

Now, if my model helps you do that, because you can take your experience that you haven't been able to explain to yourself because you've had paranormal experiences, say for instance, and there's no way to explain those, and our culture and our science just denies that they exist, but you have them, so you know they exist. So then if a model gives you a logical explanation for them, then good. Now you've got a logical explanation that explains your own personal experience. If you don't have that personal experience, then just hold it as a possibility. So yes, belief is a problem. Don't believe what I say. Try to take some time and effort to find out with what I say, whether or not what I say is true or not. That's kind of the challenge I have. I don't want anybody to believe it. I want them to make an effort to try to find out whether that's true, and it's not that hard to find out.

Things like remote viewing and healing with your mind are easy. Most people can learn those and be effective at doing them in a few weeks, a few months. If you practice at it, it's just not a hard thing to do, and to convince yourself that indeed these paranormal things are actually just normal things. They're artifacts of consciousness. They're not para anything. They're just normal parts of the way the world works. So that's true. Yes. It's my big toe. The my isn't in my big toe because I'm so proud of it.

The my is in my big toe because it's my experience. And if it's not your experience, then keep it at an arm's length. Be skeptical of it. But keep working towards learning enough so you can decide whether it's right or not. And if you decide it's not right, well then, go on your way. It's not a problem. Just keep your mind open and new information is very likely to come in at some time that you won't be able to explain any other way other than by my model. Like quantum mechanics can't be explained any other way except through virtual reality and relativity. C being constant can't be explained any other way. So you get into these places where you just can't explain the data on the ground any other way than with this model.

Then the model starts gaining credibility in your mind. And, you raise the probability up from 20%, maybe up to 35%, and then keep on collecting more data. That's the way you have to deal with information in your life. If we just jump to conclusions and come to beliefs, we'll never grow up because we'll never let any new thoughts in, ever.

[01:16:48] - Human beings are trying to develop and move forward. We live in a world that is filled with fear. How can an average person living in this world, in various societies, different cultures, embark on the journey to reduce the level of fear?

[01:17:09] - Okay. Yes, most people are up to their eyebrows in fear, and they don't know it. They have fears. They may know one or two of those fears, but they have mostly no idea the level of fear that informs most of their choices. So first, let me tell you how you can tell that you have fear and what those fears are. So the first step is kind of locating the fear. It's hard to do anything about it until you find out what it is. If you are ever experiencing negativity, if you ever feel unhappy, if you feel like you're in an endless struggle, if you get angry, upset, annoyed, frustrated, if any of those things are experiences of yours, then you have ego. You wouldn't feel that negativity if you didn't have ego. Okay, now, the ego is easy to spot because it's just associated with negative feelings.

So if you have a negative feeling, you have ego, and if you have ego, you have that ego because of fear. Ego is a product of fear. So let's say you feel angry. Somebody does something, somebody belittles your contribution that you've made, and you get angry. And I'm saying, "Well, okay, you feel angry. That's your ego, and that's tied to a fear." And you say, "No, it's not a fear. I'm angry because that person just said that. That person makes me angry." That's a cop-out. That's not true. You choose to be angry.

You could choose not to be angry. So first, you take responsibility for yourself. You're angry because that's your choice. So you go look for the fear then. Why am I angry? Now, I can't point and say somebody else made me that way. That's not the way it works. You have to say, "Why does that make me angry?" And you'd find out, okay, they belittled my contribution. The reason I'm angry It's because I feel inadequate, perhaps. I feel inadequate, or I feel that other people might take things away from me, or might cheat me, or take advantage of me somehow.

I'm afraid of being abused or misused. I'm afraid that I'm really not all that good, and when somebody belittles me, that just upsets me because it kind of pushes my face into my fear of not being adequate or of being abused somehow. So that's the fear, and if you want to not be angry anymore, you have to get rid of that fear. When you get rid of that fear, then when somebody belittles your work, you don't get angry. You just answer them. You can say, "Well, my work is this and this and this, and the way it fits in is because of that," and so on, and you're just going to answer that question. Or you can understand, why do they think that that work is not very important? Why do they see it that way? And you can ask them some questions. So you see, you can learn things.

You can move forward. You can deal with the problem without the anger. So if you get angry because of that, you can't deal with the problem. They say something like that, and you explode back. What do you mean inadequate? That's wrong. Stuff you do ain't any good at all. And you're calling mine inadequate, and you get into an argument which goes nowhere. Now, both people are worse off than they were before, whereas if there's no anger, you can deal with the problem. Even if the other person is angry, you can deal with that, too.

You just don't get angry anymore because you realize it doesn't have anything to do with you. It's about them. We're talking about their perception. Why do you have that perception, you see? And that means you have a possibility of going forward in this relationship, in this connection, rather than just making it worse. So that's the point. We get rid of the fear, and suddenly everything works better. We're better at work, we're better at home, we're better in relationships because it's the fear that is . In order to get rid of your fear, first you have to find your fear. You have to know what it is.

Most of us have fear that we don't even know we have. So it's difficult to understand your fear because you keep that fear suppressed. That's the job of the ego. The ego keeps the fear such that you don't have to deal with it. It's like a wall between you and the fear. So the fear creates the ego, and the fear also creates belief. We have lots of beliefs as well as lots of fear, and we also don't know what they are most of the time. We believe all sorts of things, and we have no idea that they're our beliefs because we just accept them as fact, therefore we don't see them as a belief. So beliefs and fear are very difficult to see, but luck is with us. Ego is easy to see.

It's a very simple thing to see. You can find your ego just by being aware of your feelings. If you ever feel anything negative, if you ever feel anything that is not happy and joyful and full of good things, that's because of ego. If you feel angry, that's because of ego. So look at your feelings. A negative feeling has its roots in a fear. If you feel angry, find out why you're angry. Look down at the depths of yourself. Be honest with yourself. Be authentic and find where is that anger coming from.

Why do you react that way? And you will find that there is some fear down there, a fear of being inadequate, a fear that you're insecure, a fear of not being lovable or being abandoned or there's a whole list of fears that people have. Mostly they get these out of their childhood, and you have these fears, and that's why you get angry. That's why you get upset. That's why you get annoyed with things. That's why you're frustrated is because of a fear. So first find the ego through negativity, then find the fear through self-examination, and you're not allowed to blame the fear on somebody else. The reason I have the fear is because so and so made me feel that way. You have to take responsibility for how you feel. So they don't make you feel any way in particular.

You choose to feel that way, and the reason is your fear. So once you find that fear, okay, you say, "I get angry whenever people take advantage of me. I get angry when people say that I'm inadequate, or I didn't do something right, or I'm too short, or I'm too tall, or I'm not fast enough or whatever. I get upset with myself, upset with others." Doesn't matter. It's all related to fear. So you find that fear. Maybe it's a fear of being inadequate or a fear of not being lovable, fear of not being liked, a fear that people will make fun of you. Well, the fear that people will make fun of you is attached to a fear of not being good enough. So anyway, find the bottom fear, and when you do, own it. Have an intention to get rid of it and have an intention to own it.

So by owning it, I mean you have to say, okay, I have this fear. You don't have to really know where it came from. If you want to, you can trace to where you came from. It probably something that happened to you when you were three years old that really wasn't all that significant in the big picture but was very significant to you in the little picture. But regardless of where it comes from, own it and then think back of all the ways that this fear has informed your choices, has led to your choices being the way they are. When you do that, you'll be surprised. If you take some weeks to do that, it's not an easy thing. Take some weeks to really see how has this fear affected my choices for the last decade. What are all the choices I made because of this fear? And that will give you the incentive you need to get rid of it because you'll see that it has been the thing that has caused you the trouble all your life.

It's been the thing that got in your way, the thing that caused you trouble. So once you understand what it's been doing to you, get your intent focused on getting rid of it, not hiding it, not pretending it's not there, not pushing it under the rug, but getting rid of it. So you have this intent at the being level, I want to get rid of this thing. I don't want to be that way. I don't want to feel that way. And when you find yourself feeling that way, stop yourself and say, "No." Not going there, not going to bring up that feeling. Just don't do it. Well, that'll be intellectual to begin with, and it'll be like you're trying to push the fear out of sight. But that's not it. We're not trying to push it out of sight.

We're not trying to pretend that we don't have it. We're trying to actually make it go away so you don't feel that anger, say. It's not that, oh, I feel angry. Okay, I'm going to stuff it. I'm going to smile, a real big smile so nobody knows I'm angry. That's not what we're after. It's not better behavior. It's better being that we're after. You can smile through your grit teeth and all right, you're not starting an argument, but you're not really growing up either. What you have to do is not be angry, refuse to feel angry.

Let the anger go. And as you do this, I don't know, maybe it takes 100 times. You keep pushing it away. You keep denying it, I shouldn't say denying it, not that way, but you keep refusing to feel that anger and it keeps coming back anyway, but it gets less and less. So after six months or a year or maybe a couple of weeks if you're lucky, the fear will just start to get less and less because your intent modifies future probability. And if you really have this intent at the being level, not at the intellectual level, your fear will just fade away and disappear. And then your life will be so much better. You'll feel lighter. You'll feel happier. When people say rude things to you, you'll just smile and go on with the conversation or you will explore that with them or whatever, but you won't get angry because that's just you don't have that fear in there anymore.

So now you can be productive in your interactions rather than creating problems in your interactions, productive in your relationships. So you have to really want to do it. If you're just doing it because you think it would be a good idea and because you think it's what you should do, you probably won't get there or it will take you a very long time. That's at the intellect. Oh, I should do this. I should get rid of the fear. Well, that's a good way to start perhaps, but the getting rid of it intent has to be at the being level, has to be something you really want, not something you want to add to your image. I don't want people to see me being fearful or being angry. That's changing your image, not changing who you are. So it has to be fundamental to you changing yourself.

So that button, if somebody pushes that button, it just doesn't cause a reaction anymore. That's where we're going. So that's how you get rid of the fears, just one at a time. Start with an easy one. Start with one that's not the deepest fear that drives you insane. Start with one that's a problem but not necessarily the big problem because the first one is the hardest one, takes the most effort because you're just finding your own way through this process. The second one will be a lot easier and a lot quicker. The third one even quicker yet and pretty soon that'll get pretty easy to let go of and you can divest yourself of fears pretty efficiently. But the first one's tough so pick one that you can deal with and just get rid of it and see how it feels to live without it. So that's how you deal with your fear.

You work on them one at a time. Some people will get over it in weeks. Other people will take years. Depends on how deep it is, how sincere you are trying to get rid of it and what it's tied to. If it's tied to some root and you may have to go and find out what that event is. You can do that through meditation. You can go to meditate and you can say, "Show me. Show me what it is that causes me to have this fear. What is it in me? What is it in my experience that causes me to have this fear?" And very likely you will get pictures, you may get verbiage back and it will tell you.

It'll show you pictures of it so then you'll see, oh, it was something silly like all my siblings got presents but I didn't get one. Something silly like that and you felt inadequate. You felt unloved. You felt that you weren't as good as your siblings and from then on you carried this fear with you and now you're 60 years old and you still have it but now it's causing more trouble. You see and it goes back to something that was a really a minor thing in a big picture. That's the way they are. They tend to be paper tigers, not real tigers. We're afraid that they're going to bite but there's nothing there but smoke and once you face it and deal with it, the smoke vaporizes. So that's how you get rid of the fear

[01:31:44] - I think that your tapes regarding fear are very important for the listeners, and they are very universal. But in this moment, I would like to ask you about the connection between our consciousness and avatars. I mean, in terms most of us who thinks that we are only avatars, and they don't regard that we are something more than our physical bodies, and that we are only avatars. And what is the connection? What is the consciousness of awareness of the consciousness and how the avatar can get conscious about its consciousness? Because some people want to grow up on the level of the avatar, but how it looks like from the point of view of your theory. I'm not sure if I can explain my idea. You said a lot about consciousness and the game that consciousness play here in our reality.

[01:32:52] - Yes.

[01:32:52] - And some avatars become aware of the player. My question is related to this growing awareness of the player. I mean, how we become aware of the player.

[01:33:05] - How do we become aware? How do we become aware that we're just a player and not a body?

[01:33:12] - Mm-hmm.

[01:33:13] - I guess there's a couple of ways to look at that. We can look at how science has worked on the problem and where they kind of get stuck, and then we can work on how we can explore a larger conscious system and see that we exist outside of the physical reality. In both of those, we look at our own experience. We can experience our consciousness as being outside of this physical reality. That's what we do when we experience things like remote viewing, getting data from the databases, and healing other people with our minds. All these things that are paranormal are things that give us an experience working with this reality, but from a nonphysical standpoint. So when we heal with our mind, we're not doing anything physically here. We're doing things through a nonphysical conduit. So that is one way, just through these experiences of paranormal things that we can say, well, we are consciousness. We're not a physical body because we're able to affect the physical world from a nonphysical viewpoint, from a mental viewpoint.

And we can only do that when we let go of the physical world. In other words, when we go into a meditation state where we let go of all the sense data, and we then are just consciousness. We're no longer getting a data stream from our avatar, defining our avatar. We become just a consciousness at that point. So let's look at the way, that's one way, and I can explain how to do that a little later. But another way is look at what science has done. Science has tried very hard over 100 years or more to try to show, to try to prove, to demonstrate that consciousness is a creation of the brain. All of their attempts to show this have failed. Their attempts have gotten rather wild and full of conjecture. All of these ones that actually get down to trying to show how it's possible that a brain, that the physical world somehow creates consciousness.

Scientists and philosophers and what do you call, I think a psychologist who study consciousness call this the hard problem. It's the hard problem of finding the origin of consciousness within the physical world. The reason it's a hard problem is that the physical world does not create consciousness. That's why it's hard. It's because it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. The physical world is a virtual world. Let's just start with virtual reality. The physical world as a virtual world cannot create consciousness. In the virtual world, reality is created only in the minds of consciousness.

Okay? There is no real virtual world. The virtual world is created only in the minds of consciousness. Now, that's maybe a big thought, so let me try to give you an example. When you are playing World of Warcraft, you see a simulated virtual world, the world that your elf lives in. In that world, there are rivers and streams and trees and houses with doors and doorknobs that have to be turned to open the doors. All of that stuff exists in that World of Warcraft virtual reality. But where does it exist? It doesn't exist in the computer. The computer only sends data.

The computer sends, let's say, two million, if you have a two-million pixel screen. The computer sends you two million dots. Each dot has three values, an intensity, a color, and a location. So you get nine million pieces of information, and they're all dots of light. You are the one that create the reality. You look at this array of dots of light and you, the consciousness, interpret those dots of light as a reality. You interpret those dots of light as rivers, as trees, as houses with doors and doorknobs that have to be turned. You create that reality as your interpretation of the data. So reality exists in the minds of the players. It's their interpretation of the data That creates the reality.

So that tells you that reality is in the mind. It's not something physically objective. The elf's existence is not physically objective. It's only in the mind. So this elf, no matter how complex this virtual reality is with making this elf, no matter how much data is required to do that, it's just data. It's ones and zeros on a hard drive, and they will never become conscious. They cannot become conscious. So there is no way that a virtual reality can spring up a character that is conscious. You see, conscious characters in virtual realities are logically impossible. Characters in virtual realities can be played by players who are conscious.

So that's how a virtual reality character, an avatar, moves and acts, whatever. It has to be a player, and as we discussed earlier, the player has to be non-physical to the virtual reality. So virtual reality explains this very easily. If we're a materialist and we don't understand that consciousness has to be outside of us and that we're avatars, well, one, we fail in all of our attempts to show how the physical can create consciousness. That's the hard problem. And we can have experiences within consciousness, paranormal experiences that show us that consciousness is more fundamental. Consciousness can affect the physical. You see, if consciousness was created by the physical, then it's the physical is the creator, consciousness the product. Okay? So actuality, it's the other way around.

Consciousness is the creator. Physical reality is the product, so consciousness can manipulate physical reality because it's the fundamental one and the physical reality is the subset. It's the manufactured one. So that's how one can tell. So how do you do these paranormal things where you can show that your consciousness and your awareness can modify physical reality? It's not hard to do. In all of my workshops, usually the second day, I do experiments. I explain to people how to do these things, how to have these paranormal experiences, and many people who've never had experience like that at all in their life, just sitting there in this group, after I explain it to them and they make a couple of tries, they astound themselves with how accurately they can remote view. Well, they're not really good at it all the time, and they're not terribly consistent, but they get enough of it sometimes that astoundingly. They'll make very detailed pictures and descriptions of things that no way they could just by luck come up with that.

So that shows them that the consciousness is more fundamental than the physical. They're able to move around in the physical. They're not constrained by the physical. So that's how a person would tell. That's the best way, and I run seminars all the time. Like I said, I just got through three of them in France last month, and I run these to teach people how to have these experiences, how to get around in the larger consciousness system, and so far, it seems to be very effective. It's not a hard thing for the average person to learn how to do. So that's how you know that you are more than a physical body because you can experience being more than a physical body.

[01:41:09] - If I understand correctly, does that mean that we can put an equal sign between the notions of consciousness and God as an almighty creator?

[01:41:23] - Well, the larger consciousness system is the creator in my theory. The larger consciousness system is not perfect. It's not supernormal. It's just normal. Okay? It's a normal, real system. It's not infinite. It has limits. So in that sense, it doesn't really fit the traditional description of God, but it has all the attributes that religion attributes to God other than those things like being perfect and infinite and that sort of thing. And I asked a bunch of theologians once, I was in Atlanta, and you can find us on YouTube, and I had two theologians there who had doctors of theology, and I asked them, "Tell me, what are the attributes of God?

If you had to describe God and its attributes, the things that are most fundamental that describe what makes God God, what would it be?" And they came up with six or seven things, and all of those things were also attributes of the larger consciousness system. So there's many people who are religious, describe themselves as very religious, who really like my big toe because it puts a face on God, if you will. They see the larger consciousness system as God because it meets all of the criteria that are meaningful there in the sense of what God means. But there is no dogma. There's nothing to believe. It's just a natural system that is trying to survive. It's trying to evolve rather than de-evolve. It's trying to become love. It's in that process, and we are a part of that process. We're part of that system strategy to evolve.

We are pieces of it, and we're going through this entropy reduction trainer, and as we evolve because we're pieces of it, it evolves. You see? So we're part of its strategy to survive, and our job just, well, continue on to do that. So many people make that parallel between the larger consciousness system and God because it serves those purposes. It is the creator. It is the source We are individuated units of consciousness, so we are pieces of it in its image, if you will, and we can go on and on with lots of parallels that will sound very familiar to people who are religious, and the larger consciousness system fits that. It tries to help us grow up. It's very active and interactive with us if we are trying, if we're trying to grow up. If we're not trying to grow up, it just really kind of lets us do in our own juice. But if we are, it will help out.

You'll find synchronicities in your life where the right stuff just gets in front of you at the right time so that you can evolve, so that you can do better and those kinds of things that just kind of come out of the blue that happen just when you need them. That's the larger consciousness system trying to give you a little boost, a little break, a little hint about where to go next or what to do or what you need to understand. So in that way, it meets the kind of the criteria the way people think about God, but all the dogma's gone, all of the belief is gone. This is not a system you should believe in. This is a system you should experience, not believe in. You need to go there and be part of it. See it, experience it, and not believe in it. Again, if it's not your experience, it's not your truth. Don't believe what I tell you. Go take the trouble to learn and grow and see if what I tell you is true from your own experience.

[01:45:33] - Can we prove the functioning of something that is referred to as reincarnation within a virtual reality?

[01:45:44] - Can we prove reincarnation? Well, science doesn't use the word prove anymore. As Dean Radin says, "Proof is for whiskey." Proof is not what we're looking for. We're looking for evidence. And yes, there's a lot of evidence that reincarnation is a real thing. For me, the fact that it has to be a logical part of my theory in order for the whole theory to work well is pretty strong proof to me, but may not be for others. But if you look up Dr. Brian Weiss, you will find that he's done a lot of research on past lives, and you can find many, many cases where people have knowledge of past events that they should not have. There's a little boy who was like, I don't know, six years old maybe, and he could tell his parents that he used to be a pilot and he flew an airplane and they give him the kind of plane, the type of plane, and he got shot down in a particular battle, and he could tell the pilot's name and all of the details. Oh, then a little child of that age would know nothing about obscure details, but yet details that were recorded someplace.

And sure enough, this little guy's right. He had all those details right. So how does that happen that somebody can, with that much detail and specificity, talk about the past that he never should have experienced unless he actually did experience it. So that's just a simple case. But those that do research on past lives and these sorts of things find hundreds of such cases. So it's not like just one fluke that happened, but there are lots of these. Dr. Weiss, he uses these past lives as part of his therapy. He's a psychiatrist, actually a very well-known and very highly regarded psychiatrist, head of psychiatry at one of the major hospitals is where he came from. That was his background.

So you can find lots of evidence that verify or that points toward reincarnation being a real thing, whether you experience it or not. Now, once you get to where you can get around in the larger consciousness system, once you learn how to let go of your physical surroundings and interact with things consciously, like I learned with Bob Monroe, you can verify it for yourself. You can go with somebody who is dying, and you can follow them. You can be with them as they die at the moment of death, after they die, and see what that experience is. You can follow and see what happens to them, what do they experience next. You connect with them so that you get their thoughts, you see what they see, and you can follow along with them and experience that. So that's another fact of experience. But again, if it's not your experience, that can't be your truth. You can also go to that virtual reality that I call the transition reality, where when people die, their individuated unit of consciousness has a little transition process it has to go through because it's kind of a shock to its system. Doesn't know exactly what's going on because this log-on is immersive, entirely immersive.

You see, so the consciousness actually sees itself as the avatar. It's not aware that it's consciousness to begin with. It's this piece of consciousness that's logged on with no memory, nothing at the intellectual level. Only it comes in with the quality that it's earned. And then it starts out, its first experience is that experience maybe in utero or being born. And from then on, it has to figure out how to, what's the word, understand the data that it gets, how to read that data, and it has to learn that. So when it comes here, it's completely 100% identified with the avatar, and it believes itself to be an avatar, not a consciousness. You see? So that's why people have a hard time with it. But as it grows up, it becomes more and more aware there's another dimension.

It becomes aware there's something more than just the physical reality. It starts to explore. It learns how to meditate. It learns how to get out of body. It learns how to remote view and do other things. It starts to understand what it really is, and then if it can get around in the consciousness realms, it can go to that virtual reality where consciousness ends up in the transition after the avatar dies, and it can see the process. It can be a part of it. It can even work there, be part of that process if it wants to. So there's another bunch of facts. So that's how one understands it.

They have to be open-minded. They have to learn. They have to go out and learn how to remote view, how to heal with their mind, how to get around in the larger consciousness system. And by doing so, they prove to themselves, one, that consciousness is fundamental and the physical world is not, and they get to see how it works. They can look behind the scenes, behind the curtain, as you would in a play. Look behind the curtain and see what's going on back there. Look at these other virtual realities, experience them, be a part of them, and do some experiments there. Once you can get there and get back repeatedly in the same way, you can actually do experiments there. Make checks, find out things. Get some information, then come back here and see if that information is correct.

Get some information from people who have passed and are dead now, and then go back and see if that information fits. So there's lots of ways that you can convince yourself that this is a fact, not just a part of your imagination. So that's how we know that reincarnation is a real thing. That's how we know how consciousness is more fundamental than the physical. That's why I offer these training courses that help people do this, because they want to experience it themselves, and until they do, it's not their truth. And they should be skeptical. If this is not your truth, you should be skeptical. That's the right place to be, but you should also be open-minded and willing to put in the effort to learn.

[01:52:19] - I also have a question related to the notion of databases of probabilities. How the probabilities are chosen from the database of all the probabilities? How do we come across or experience this probability and not the other? Is it all dependent solely on our decisions, choices?

[01:52:44] - Okay. Good question. The way new things come into this reality frame, of course, is through new data in the data stream. And until we experience it, until we get that data, it's not in our reality, because again, our reality is only in the minds of the players. So let's say that somebody has a new technology for a telescope, and it'll see further than any telescope's ever seen before. So they set up this new telescope, and they look in an area of space that's never been looked at before. Here's how the system deals with new things. It looks at all the possibilities that that telescope might see in that part of space. So there may be 100 different things that could be there. Now, these things are constrained.

It couldn't just be anything. They're not going to look and see tiny pixies flying around or dancing hippopotamuses or anything like that. They have to see something that is, one, consistent with history. In other words, consistent with all the other things we've seen in space. Consistent with the things that we've seen around or near this thing, even though we've never seen it before. We've seen stuff in and around it, say. So it has to be consistent with what we already know, with the facts on the ground, and it has to be consistent with the rule set. Okay? Our virtual reality has evolved from initial conditions according to a rule set. It's not programmed, it's evolved.

So those are the conditions. But within those two conditions has to be within what we already know, within the facts on the ground, and it has to be according to our rule set. There are 100, say, different things that it could be. Maybe there's a million, but let's just say there's 100 different things that could be there. Each of these 100 has a certain probability. Some of them are less likely than others. So you have 100 things, each with a probability that it might be there. Now, that creates a probability distribution of the possibilities. A random draw is taken from that probability distribution, and that's what's there. That's the thing that that telescope will see.

Now, when I say a random draw from the distribution, that does not mean a random draw from all the possibilities. When you take a random draw from the distribution of the possibilities, now the things that are more possible, have a higher probability, are the ones that are more likely to be drawn in that random draw. Okay? So depending on how likely or unlikely it is, how probable or improbable it is, there's more or less likelihood that that's what will be drawn. That's what it means to take a random draw from a probability distribution. So that's how they see. So a random draw is taken. When that draw is taken, that's what's seen. Out of those 100 things, only one thing will be seen, and it was the one that was drawn out there randomly. So let's say one of those things was one in a million.

Well, then there's only one in a million chance that that random draw is going to pull that thing out. You see? One other thing may be 10,000 in a million would be its probability. Well, now there's a 10,000 in a million probability that that thing will be pulled out, you see? So that's the That's the way it works. Now, the same thing works everywhere. It's not only in outer space, but wherever there is uncertainty, wherever in our system there is unknown, and all of our science is basically trying to dig things out of the unknown, right? If they were known, then they'd already be part... So scientists are out trying to discover new knowns, or trying to dig around in the unknown and come up with something new. Well, everything that's unknown has certain possibilities.

Maybe there's only two possibilities, or maybe there's only one possibility, and that's the only thing you can get, then a random draw always gets that. But where there's multiple possibilities because there's uncertainty, the system always delivers a random draw from the probability distribution of the possibilities. Now, how does that affect us here locally? Here's one of my favorite metaphors, is that let's say you're going on a trip. So you leave your apartment, you lock it up. Nobody's going to get inside. You're gone for a month. You come back, you open your refrigerator door, but you don't really remember what's in there because it's been a month and you really didn't study it that much when you walked out. It's just what was in your refrigerator, just sort of maybe the last time you were in there, you didn't really pay attention too much to what was in there. Well, now there's uncertainty with what's in your refrigerator.

Okay? Now, if you took a picture of it before you left, and you have that photograph sitting on top of the refrigerator, now there's no uncertainty as to what's in there because you've captured it right there in a picture. But if you didn't take the picture, there's more uncertainty. So when you open that refrigerator door, there's certain probability that certain things will be there, and you get a random draw from the probability distribution of the possibilities, and that's what's in your refrigerator. So you see, that works for all things that have uncertainty. That's how they are produced. That's why we need a future probable database because that's already collected the probability of all these possibilities. That's what's in the future probable database. That's why that has to exist. So that's how new things come into the reality.

[01:58:26] - Could you please comment on two things? First, conspiracy theories and the second, extraterrestrials.

[01:58:37] - Okay. I'm take another one of these lozenges because that's going to be a little long. Those are two big questions. Okay. Conspiracy theories. Of course, there are such things as conspiracies. People do conspire to have their way. That's just the nature of people, particularly people in power, want to use that power to make things come out the way they want them. So we do have conspiracies as an actual thing, no doubt. But the conspiracy theories that are running all around the internet for almost every subject tend to mostly be fear-based.

It's all about fear. It's all about how the evil something or other is doing these nasty things to us. They're all very fear-based. Now, remember I told you that the intention will modify the probability of what happens in the future. It creates a higher probability of things happening in the future. So if you have a very negative intention, if your intentions are fearful, you're providing a higher probability for fearful things to take place. In general, you tend to make your fears come true. Those things you fear, the things you fear the most, you create those things because you're putting a lot of energy into that negative thing happening just by being fearful of it. You're putting intent. You have this intent.

Oh, no. Well, that's an intent. Oh, no, it's an intent. And that puts more likelihood that that awful thing will happen. So the conspiracy theories, for the most part, to me, seem to be a lot of very, very fearful people who are imagining all sorts of terrible things that might happen. Their proof is usually pretty sketchy from my estimation, and whether it's true or not isn't so much the issue as to how they react to that. So let's say there's a conspiracy theory about A and B, and whether it's true or not isn't the point. If they are full of fear about it and they're just selling fear in their conspiracy because fear is something that is easy to sell because people are so fearful, then they are doing damage. They're doing harm. It's not a contribution.

If they actually were selling solutions, if they were saying ways that would solve the problem, "Here's how this problem can be solved," that would be helpful, but just, "Oh, watch out. It's horrible. Duck. Everybody run." This fearful stuff. It's these institutions, they're going to do this. They're going to steal your children. They're going to take away all your money. They're going to come get you next. That's generally not true in the sense that somebody's actually going to come get you next. The hype starts to feed itself.

The fear starts to feed itself, and fear creates more fear, which creates more fear. That makes that part of the problem. If we had people instead that says, "Here's how we solve these problems. Here's what we do next." And if they realize that the fear-mongering is not helpful It doesn't help anybody deal with these fears to be afraid of them. You see, fear always makes you act badly. Fear is never an advantage. If you fear something, you will act in ways to make the fear come true. If you fear that that bear is going to get you when you run into a bear in the woods, that fear will do one of two things. It will freeze you right in spot, and you will start to exude fear pheromone, so that bear will see that you're frozen and an easy prey because you're so frightened, or it'll make you turn around and run in a panic, and that just makes the bear want to chase you and bite you because that's what they do. They chase prey.

So your fear is never helpful. It always makes the problem worse. So whether or not the conspiracy is a real conspiracy or not, the conspiracy theories based on fear are not a good thing. They're not helpful. They just make everything worse. It is also kind of in a similar light. The way I look at all the fear that's on the internet, all the scary stories, and all the fear-mongering going on there is that fear is a thing by which makes you controllable. If you're frightened, if you have fears, those who understand your fears can control you. Okay, so that's why religions are often based on fear. Hellfire and brimstone.

Do what we say or else. You'll go to hell and burn forever. Well, fear makes people easily manipulatable. That's why the legal system uses fear. Do this crime and you'll spend the rest of your life in jail. Fear as a result tends to help you manipulate people. Fear in politics. Oh, the immigrants are coming. They're going to overwhelm all of us. Fear makes the population manipulatable.

The politicians then can get those people to do what they want because of the fear they create. Advertisers create fear. Advertisers say, "If you don't drink this beer, you won't be successful with the girls. If you don't smoke this cigarette, all the girls will walk away from you." So it's working on people's fear of being inadequate, fear of being unlovable, fear of not being attractive, and they sell products based on that. Use this makeup. Use this pimple cream. Use this hair thickener. All based on manipulating money out of people's pockets because of their fears. So why is there so much fear on the internet? Why is there so much misinformation, mostly fear-based stuff on the internet?

Well, here's one good reason, and that is that the internet levels the playing field. The internet takes control away from central control and gives control back to the distributed people. The internet is uncontrollable because it doesn't come from one place. It's millions of computers all over the planet. Get stuff, pass it along, are part of the process of making the internet work. So there's no way that you can ban it, get rid of it, because it's just ingrained in our infrastructure now. So because of that, and because of things like cell phones with cameras, and because now every citizen, every person anywhere becomes a reporter because they've got eyeballs and they've got a cell phone with a camera and a recorder, and it gets harder and harder for those who would do things that are wrong to do them and not get caught. And for their picture, catching them in action to end up on the internet someplace. So if you are a person in a power structure, and this is a frightening thing to you, how are you going to deal with this internet that's likely to get pictures of you doing things wrong, discussions of you doing things wrong? How are you going to eliminate that?

How are you going to eliminate from people complaining about the way you operate? Well, the way you do it, you can't get rid of the internet, so you can pollute the internet with as much misinformation and as much drivel and as much far-out stuff and as much craziness as possible, because then you've basically diluted the credibility of everything. So you get something comes up, "Oh, I just got a picture of so-and-so doing this horrible thing," and they just say, "Nah, they just made that up. They photoshopped it. It's not mine." Okay. And people believe that because there's so much junk and trash and stuff on the internet that you no longer have any way of telling that anything is true or not true. So the ability of the internet to be the policeman, to be the reporter, to be the sleuth that catches somebody has been reduced to almost nothing because of that. So there are people, no doubt, tens of thousands of people who are hired to do nothing more than flood the internet with nonsense, with foolishness, with scary stories, with conspiracy theories, anything that'll keep people all buzzed up and wound up around junk, around stuff. And that way, nobody's paying attention. And even if they are, there's no way that you can tell that anything is real because there's all this junk.

So I can see that Some of the conspiracy theory stuff fits in that way. These conspiracy theories, even though they're about the evil government, just as likely they're put out there and started and fed by that government just to keep the people wound up around these details rather than actually looking at serious hard questions and trying to figure out what to do about them. Instead, they're all running around like Chicken Little. The sky's falling, and nobody is really paying attention to what's actually going on. So that's my thought on conspiracy theories. It's not saying every single one of them is like this, but most of the time, they're fear-mongering because fear attracts attention. If they say something and there's not a big fear story with it, well, nobody will pay any attention to them. Fear creates power. Fear lets you manipulate. Fear makes your thing grow, makes you important.

If you can tell a really scary story and tell everybody how some evil thing is going to eat them up, well, now you become important, you see? So unfortunately, all of this fear-mongering has created a very fearful environment where our electorates are easily manipulated, our attitudes are easily manipulated. We have millions of people who are against this and for that, and we have polarized society. All of these problems, which are all distractions, are all there because of the fear. So I think we've overdone it a great deal with our conspiracy theories. It doesn't mean that some of them aren't true. It just means that if all you're going to say about it is to cry the alarm, then you're not really part of the solution. You're part of the problem. Now, you can just give information and say, "Well, here are the facts." That's different. Here are the facts.

Okay, this happened, then that happened. But if the tone is fearful, oh, no, then you're part of the problem. If you're delivering facts, that's okay. That's educational. Even though facts don't really exist on the internet anymore because there's so much junk that nobody can tell a fact from a lie. Nobody really can tell the truth from a falsity. So that's the thing about conspiracy theories. They're just, for the most part, unfortunate that they exist to the extent that they do. They create a lot of fear. Now, the other thing you talked about, let's see.

What was the second thing you wanted me to talk about?

[02:10:49] - If I remember correctly, it was about extraterrestrials.

[02:10:54] - Oh, yes. Extraterrestrials. Very interesting subject. Extraterrestrials. Okay. The way the scientists look at extraterrestrials is that this is a very big universe, and the universe has billions of billions, probably trillions of suns that could support life on a planet. And with all of that, it seems very unlikely that we are the only life living in this whole huge universe. We can't even see out to the ends of it. So with all of this, and because it's so extensive, the theory goes that it's very likely that life exists someplace else other than just here in this one little mediocre sun with these few planets going around it. There's just this one planet and all of that that's produced anything in the way of life is kind of almost a silly idea, except when you look at it this way, and that is that if this is a virtual reality, then the virtual reality only computes what it needs to send to the players, nothing else.

So if this is a virtual reality, it exists in the minds of the players and nothing else is computed but the data that goes to the players. In other words, the data that emulates what the players sense with their five senses. That's all the data you get. All right? So if that's the case, then there is no waste with all this huge universe and all the suns and all the planets and all that stuff because it's never computed. All that's computed is just lights in the sky, and even then it's only computed at night when it's not cloudy. So there's almost no computation required to do this entire universe. Now, somebody gets a telescope, and they look out there, send up Hubble, and Hubble looks at something for the minute or the second or an hour that Hubble looks at it, then it just takes the random draw, shows Hubble what's there. That's the answer, and then Hubble looks someplace else. That's gone.

It's no longer being computed. It only computes what it has to send to the IUOCs. Well, the IUOC that's looking through the telescope, he looks, and the system has to send something to that IUOC that tells him what it is he's going to see. That's the way it works. So the computer has to send something to say what he sees. He sends it, he sees it. Now the person looks someplace else. That never gets computed. If he goes back and looks at that again, well, that's part of history now, so it'll have to be shown the same thing. Once it gets here, it stays here.

It becomes a part of history. Whenever you look at it, it's going to look like that. You see, it doesn't change then. It only changes as it might change naturally. So- In a virtual reality, there's no wastage whatsoever. If there are seven and a half billion seats in this particular simulation of Earth, then is that enough? Do you need more billions of seats and hundreds of thousands of other planets around other suns? How many seats do you need in this simulator? How many IUOCs need to log on? You see.

Now, if you're the consciousness system, you realize that you're a finite system, you have finite resources, and for a while, the more IUOCs you get, well, the more possibilities there are, more places you can evolve into. But it gets to the point where if you add any more IUOCs, it costs more in the way of supporting them with data and computer resources than they actually contribute after a while. So there's some sweet point where you have just about this many IUOCs, and you get more for your buck right there than anything else. If more than that, and you actually have more resources going out, the cost is more than the return. If you have fewer than that, then you can actually get more return for the cost. You see? So there's a sweet point where you have just about the right number of seats for the size of the system and what the system's trying to do. So that would tell you that an infinite number or a huge, huge number of seats isn't necessary. There's some sweet spot. Well, I know that there's this system that we call Earth, and that's one of these systems.

I've been to half a dozen more of such reality frames that are similar to this one in that they have virtual realities that seem physical, that there are entities in that are different than this one. So we're not the only game. But let's say I know there's a dozen such games going on. How many more seats do they need? And are these other games going on in this reality? No, these other games I see are not part of this physical universe. It's a totally different virtual reality with its own universe. It's like the difference between World of Warcraft and Sims. You see, two different universes altogether that don't interact with each other or have nothing to do with each other, just two different games. So there's multiple games going on, and this particular virtual reality with all of its trillions and trillions of suns, does there need to be anything more than, say, the seven and a half and eventually it'll probably grow to 10 or 15 billion or whatever our carrying capacity is, limit of seats?

So there may not be anything. And anything else that is alive in this universe, we may be it, and this whole universe isn't anything more than us and little lights in the sky. None of the rest of it is computed until somebody looks, and it's only computed while they're looking, and as soon as that telescope gets turned off and everybody goes home for dinner, the computer doesn't have to compute any of that anymore. So as long as the Hubble's taking pictures, it has to compute exactly what the Hubble's looking at. Soon as the Hubble moves on, it doesn't have to compute that anymore unless somebody looks back there again. So you see, it's not a waste of resources. It's not necessarily that way in a virtual reality. So that gives us a whole different perspective in which to look at the ET thing. Now, what about those people that wake up in the morning and find little green guys with pointy ears at the foot of their bed? And they say, "Well, there's ETs.

I've seen them. I've seen their craft. I've watched their flying saucers hover over my barn and saw them land, and they got out and they looked like this." And so you have all that. Well, what's that about? Well, what is it that they see? What does seeing mean? It means that those little green guys in that saucer were put in their data stream. That's what they see. Okay? So they got that data, and that's how they interpreted it.

That's all it means, is that the data was put there. Why would the system put that data there? Well, a couple of reasons. One, perhaps just to wake them up, just to show them that this little world we live in is not just all there is to it. There's a bigger picture that has more to it than just this little physical world that we know of, just this Earth and our solar system, that it's a bigger place than that. It opens their minds a bit to something bigger. That might be one reason. Who knows? There's three different ways that you get data in your data stream. Only one of them is from the larger consciousness system.

The other way you get data in your data stream is from some other IUOC, okay, some other individuated unit of consciousness, and it doesn't have to be from one that's logged into this virtual reality. It could be one that's not logged into any virtual reality that's physical. Maybe one that's just in what we call the non-physical. In other words, virtual realities that have loose rule sets, not tight rule sets, so that they don't seem physical. They're more like your dream reality. So it could be an IUOC from anywhere that sends that data to them. And the third place that you can get data from is from your own imagination. So those are three places that create data. You create it because you're a consciousness. Some other consciousness can create it, some other IUOC, and the larger system, larger consciousness system, which is consciousness, can create it.

Consciousness creates information, creates data. So the data you get never comes with a tag of the source When you get data, you don't say, "Oh, this is from the Larger Consciousness System, and this is from your imagination, and this is from an IOC." It all just comes as data. It is impossible to tell the difference. No tags. So when you get information, you interpret it, and that's what you say your senses have seen. That's your story. I saw this, and indeed, you did. You got that data in your data stream. Could come from any of those three places. What's the point?

Where did it come from? Why did you interpret it that way? Well, those are unknowns, and it's not possible to really know that for sure. It doesn't necessarily mean, though, that there's little green men that live in some other part of our universe that came here and for some reason are standing at the foot of your bed. That's just an interpretation. We don't know the source of the data. So could be the Larger Consciousness Systems that sent that. Could be some other IOC is having a little fun with you. It could be that it came from your imagination. Those are the only three possibilities.

You see? So that's what our reality is. It's information. So that's the thing about ETs, and it's interesting. There's a thing called the Fermi paradox that you can Google, Fermi paradox, and you'll see that Enrico Fermi, who's a fairly famous physicist, at lunchtime with his friends, decided to calculate why our universe that we know of, the part that we can look at and we can measure and find signals in, why isn't it full of aliens? Because you see, we're in a newer part of the universe. This universe didn't suddenly all appear just at once. Parts of it are much, much older than other parts. Our part's kind of somewhere in the middle. It's not the oldest, it's not the newest, but the older part is about a billion years older than the part that we're in.

So our part of the universe, our sun, is a billion years younger than the old part of the universe. So they say that let's say that the life on planets just kind of evolved here, it could've evolved anywhere else, including in the old part of the universe. And if it evolved about like ours, at the same rate as ours, then it would be where ours is now about a billion years ago. So they would've had a billion years to further develop beyond us, you see, by the time we are where we are now. This other group should've been there a billion years before us and had a billion years yet on us as far as further development. So they looked at that and said even if you can't go faster than light speed, even if you're limited, even if you can only go a tenth of light speed, and that's as fast as you'll ever go, eventually you'd have the technology to go out to the things that are nearest to you, and then from them go out to the things that are nearest to them, and so on. And by now, the part of the universe we live in should be fully populated based on the birthrates and how people could expand and how the technology might grow and so on. They said that the probability is very, very high that there would be aliens everywhere, that they would be on almost every inhabitable rock that they could find. They'd be on things that are well within our sensors' ranges of seeing. Well, they still have to use the same physical stuff we do.

They still have to have signals. There's still electromagnetic signatures. And we look out there and we see nothing. And these scientists thought that if the whole part of the universe we're in, the part of the Milky Way we're in, if it was really populated, densely populated like it would be by then, up to about the carrying capacity, more or less, that it would be obvious. There would be all sorts of telltale signs that aliens were everywhere, and even if they avoided contacting us directly. And since they didn't have any of those signs that they had been looking for at programs like SETI and others, they said that that's a big paradox. They should be here, yet they don't seem to be here. And the Fermi paradox, you'll see if you Google it, has maybe a dozen or more solutions to the paradox. None of them are very good. People who do logic for a living, the philosophers, and others who do logic say that the logic of Fermi that says they should be here, where are they, is much stronger than the logic of people who make up reasons why.

Like, well, they are here. They're everywhere. They're just sneaking around and we can't see them. Well, that's very hard to justify when you understand science and the kind of things that we can sense, at the distances we can sense them. Somebody somewhere would be making mistakes. Signals would come out occasionally anyhow, and we've been looking for enough years that that seems rather unlikely. So anyway, all of the arguments have been judged to be not very strong explanations of the Fermi paradox. So the Fermi paradox still stands as an unsolved paradox. But I've never put up a solution, but virtual reality is a solution that does explain it, and it's a very strong solution that gives us an answer that is just as strong, if not stronger, than the paradox itself. So that's also a possibility So sometimes people will see saucers and things because that's a wake-up call, or it leads them to go study something.

It leads them to go find things out, and they connect with people and get involved in things that otherwise they wouldn't, and all of that's part of a growing process. We have crop circles. Okay? Crop circles appear. They seem to appear overnight. They seem to appear in one day, overnight, and they do it in silence and without anybody noticing. That's pretty tricky. When you look at these circles and see how complex and how large they are, that's rather silly to think there's a bunch of farmers run out and a bunch of students from the nearby college run out to beat down the bushes to make these signs. That becomes ridiculous. Not only would it take them months to do that, it would take them lots of equipment and surveying to get it even close to being that accurate, and it would take lots of noise and lots of people and lots of machines.

And anyhow, so there are big paradox. That's one of the paradoxes in the world. Where do these things come from? Well, the people who look at that, and they're presented with the paradox, because they don't understand virtual reality at all, and that's not in their worldview, they say, "Well, it didn't come from here, because there is no known technology that can put that kind of a thing on our planet that quickly, that silently with no lights." So because it's impossible for us to do it, then it must be the aliens. The aliens have to do that because they can't think of it anything else. If it's not us, then it's got to be the aliens. Well, this is a virtual reality. In a virtual reality, the system can put anything it likes anywhere. It's just a matter of sending the data so that people who go there and look, that's what they see. See?

It's nothing. The virtual reality doesn't exist except in the minds of the players. So all they have to do is put that data in the players' minds, and there it is, sitting right there in that field. Perfect. Just like that. Overnight, no lights, no noise. You say, "Now why would the system want to do that?" It's another wake-up call. Hey, people, reality is bigger and stranger than you think. Materialism is not the answer. There's something more.

It's just that kind of a wake-up call. So that would be my guess at where they come from. Consciousness does it as a wake-up. Remember, it's trying to help us grow up. It's trying to help us see a bigger picture, help us understand what our purpose is here so that we will make better choices. So anyway, it can't do it for us. It can't lead us to it. We've got to get there on our own, but it gives us hints all the time, sometimes in mass, like crop circles, sometimes individually to people, but it's constantly giving us hints to open our mind up. So that's the thing about aliens. We tend to call anything an alien.

We tend to judge anything to be from some other planet in our universe when we run into something that we can't otherwise explain, that we can't otherwise make up a good reason for. So it's just what we do because we don't have any other choices. It's the only thing we can think of. So that's why I think a lot of the alien things happen. Now, people, I think, see these things in not necessarily the physical dimension. They see things in their mind. To them, they get data. It seems like it's physical because they're awake, their eyes are open, and there it is. But they have to understand it's just information, and the fact that that information is in their data stream doesn't necessarily mean that it's in anybody else's, or that that information is in 10 persons' data streams doesn't mean that it's what it seems to be. We look at these things, we jump to conclusions.

All I can say about it is that it's information in a data stream. It came from one of three sources, and the probability that it came from aliens out of our universe is probably small because of the nature of virtual reality. But I don't say that these are hallucinations that these people are making up and they're all nuts. That's not the case. These people saw what they saw. They got the data. So I don't see them as making things up. I see them as misinterpreting the data to be something that it isn't. At least I'm talking in general now. I'm not talking about every case.

And the same is for physical stuff. Okay, here's a big part of a spaceship lying in a field. And people got it and took pictures of it. Well, again, that's just information. The system can put a piece of something or other anywhere it wants, composed of anything it wants to compose it of. A virtual reality is just information, and it can do that and provide evidence if you want just to stir the pot and get people thinking. So that's my opinion on aliens and on the fear that we get out of conspiracy theories. I think the conspiracy theories are a problem because they're so fearful, and the aliens are probably more in the mind of the perceiver than they are in the physical reality. That's what makes them so hard to prove. That's what makes evidence so unlikely.

And you hear lots of stories. Oh, so and so, he used to be the president of something or other, and he's head of the army and did this and did that, and he saw a bunch of blips flying around. Well, no doubt he did see those blips flying around, and no doubt they were not Normal airplanes. But a blip on a scope is just information. System can do that any time it wants for any reason that it wants. So we have to kind of have a bigger perspective on the alien thing.

[02:32:40] - Thank you.

[02:32:44] - Can we say that we have been put in the virtual reality by someone, or it is we who placed ourselves in it?

[02:32:54] - Okay. We have free will, and we have the free choice to be here or not be here. If you don't want to be here in this virtual reality, you don't have to be here. So we have agreed to it. We have said, "Yes, I want to log on," otherwise we wouldn't be logged on. So it's at our request. Now, in the beginning, the system developed this virtual reality as a entropy reduction trainer. And in the beginning, it played all the parts because this thing just evolved from a rule set and initial conditions. Okay? It just evolved to be what it is.

When it evolved to the point that there were avatars, computer characters that had interesting choices, that is choices that had consequences, choices you could learn from, then the system invited IUOCs to log on and speed up their evolution because now they had a place much better than a chat room to make choices and grow up in. So at that point, I think they were probably encouraged. I could just say strongly encouraged, not forced to log on, but they were encouraged to do that. And they did come and log on to avatars and found the game to be very difficult and very hard. But they also found it challenging, and they were growing. They were changing. Some of them for the better, some of them for the worse, but the potential was there, whereas before, they were kind of languishing in the chat room. So it eventually became very popular. Other virtual realities were made. And, the way it is is that you don't have to go back, but otherwise you're just kind of sitting there not doing much.

After you've been in the virtual reality, it's so much more interesting, so much more alive, so many more choices other than just the choice of, what am I going to say? That's your choice. Okay, I got this message. How am I going to respond? All right, now I got another message. How am I going to respond? That's your whole life. Otherwise, if you're not in a virtual reality, you're in a big chat room interacting with other individuated units of consciousness. So this was the more interesting process, and it was the better process for growing up. So individuals who really don't like this virtual reality because it's hard, it is hard.

They'll say, "No, I'm not going back there. Never." And they basically tell them, "Okay, sit here. Go do what you want." And it doesn't take them very long before what they want to do is get back in the game. Because not getting back in the game is boring and not growing. You just don't grow much. So in comparison to what they had, this is a real good thing to be doing. But in the beginning, when we first started this, when the log-ons just first started coming in, and a lot of IUOCs had never been in a virtual reality with this tight a rule set before, logged on. They found it horrendously difficult. Very difficult. And that's because in the chat room, you're not challenged too much.

You have potential for love and potential for fear, but all you've done is chit-chat all your existence. So a lot of that potential's never been actualized. Suddenly they got to a place where they had to eat to survive, where they had to fight big animals with long teeth, where they had to fight each other for resources and so on, and suddenly life got hard. It got dangerous. It was exciting, but it was very, very difficult. And that's where our fear began to blossom. Fear that was always a potential but never really actualized because we didn't have the situation to actualize it. When we got in this virtual reality, the fear of starvation, of trying to keep our families and children alive, the fear of where we were going to sleep the next night and what was going to eat us, why we slept, all of that kind of blossomed up, and we had to deal with it. We had to make choices. So we're going to have to find food.

Well, this other tribe over there seems to have found some food. Do we go kill all of them and take their food or what? Or keep trying? So they had all these moral choices they had to make that were choices on the side of caring and cooperation or choices on the side of self-centeredness, and we've been doing this struggle ever since. And what's interesting is that you go around the world, and all the very old cultures who've been around a long time, they all have creation stories. And their creation stories always seem to have the same theme. Where we were before was so nice and easy and wonderful and terrific. There was never any hardship, and we all just, everybody was happy, and it worked so well for us. And then we ended up here, and oh, God, we've been struggling and miserable and full of misery and pain ever since. That kind of moaning about this transition.

Well, I think that's the transition from the chat room to the virtual reality. That's kind of the memory, if you will, the collective memory of the consciousness that made that transition from, you have in the Christian thing, there was this Garden of Eden where everything was nice and sweet and life was great. And then, it all went to hell in a handbasket, when they got the knowledge from the tree of knowledge, ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge and actually had all this experience of existence here in the virtual reality. And among the Hopi, I think they came from the stars. They came from a people far, far away out there somewhere. Well, that just means someplace that wasn't here. It's not necessarily from a star, but someplace that's not here on this planet, and it's been very harsh and hard ever since, and so on. These stories pop up all over the place, but they're all very similar. And, I think there's even some that say they came from a place called Atlantis, and that was a beautiful, wonderful place, and now they have all this hardship. So in any case, that's a story that's widespread through all of humanity, and I think that that's our memory from leaving the chat room and coming to this place in order to make hard choices with consequences and grow up.

But it works. This is a place where you can grow up. So you not have to come here. You weren't forced to come here in the first place, and you don't have to return. If you like, you can go to some other virtual reality and try that one. But you'll find that it's not the virtual reality that's the problem. It's your fear that's the problem. And then once they know that, they realize that the only way forward isn't to avoid the virtual reality, but to get rid of their fear, and that the best way to get rid of your fear is to get into the virtual reality and have to make those hard choices and deal with that fear. So that's why there's no trouble getting IUOCs to log on and, it's entirely, it's your free will to log on. That's the way the system works.

The system only works on free will. So nobody is ever forced to do anything they really don't want to do.

[02:40:57] - Tom, thank you very much. Have a good evening.

[02:41:02] - Okay. Well, thank you guys very much, and I hope you get this out, and I hope we get a lot of people there, and it's a very successful event. I think it probably will be. If people knew exactly what we were going to talk about and how it was going to work, I think we'd have a lot of interest in it. These are interesting topics these days. Just virtual reality is an interesting topic these days, and how to apply these things to your life and is paranormal real, and what good is it and how does it work and why doesn't it work sometimes? And all of that should have a pretty wide audience. I understand Poland is a real happening place in these fields, that it's a lot of people who think deeply about big things in Poland. So hopefully we'll have a large group. That would be nice.

The more people we have, the better I like it, because then we are going to spread these ideas around better, and that's the whole point is to spread these ideas around and answer people's questions.

[02:42:02] - Right. Great. Thank you very much, Tom. Thank you.

[02:42:06] - Okay. Good night, all.

[02:42:09] - Good night.

[02:42:10] - Good night.

[02:42:10] - Good night. Thank you very much.

[02:42:12] - You're welcome. So thank you, guys.

[02:42:14] - Thanks.

[02:42:15] - Thanks. Bye-bye.

[02:42:18] - Bye.

[02:42:27] - This is Tom Campbell. I'm going to be in Kraków, Poland, the 30th of June to the 1st of July. For two days, we're going to have a very interesting set of discussions and conversations. I'll be talking some. Others will also be on the stage talking. We're going to discuss the nature of reality, the nature here of our existence, what it is we can do to save the world, to make this a better place to live in. What are the things that actually will help, as opposed to just make things worse. We're going to talk about how to evolve ourselves, how to become more powerful beings, if you will, how to harness the experiences of paranormal things. We'll talk about those, whether or not these things are real, where they come from. Do they really exist, or are they just part of people's imaginations?

And how do they work? What are the things that the mind can do? What are the things that consciousness can accomplish? So we'll be talking about all of that and about how you can apply those things to your everyday life. How can you apply them to your everyday decisions, to your business, to your relationships. So we'll be talking about all those interesting things, how to optimize your own life, how to live a life of happiness and joy and caring, and hopefully introduce you to a bigger picture of who you are and why you're here. So it's going to be a lot of fun. There's going to be a lot of interaction. We're going to have a lot of Q&A so that you can ask your questions and try to find out whether any of this makes sense for you or not. But, I encourage you to come and give it a try.

We'll have fun guaranteed, and it'll be interesting guaranteed, and probably, unless you've been studying this on your own, it's going to blow your mind guaranteed. So come join us in Kraków. That's 30 June through 1 July.